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At least on TrekMovie.com, where surprise!Chulu pops up about 104 comments into a discussion about Kirk's potential romantic interest in the next movie. Some annoying pushback from ~defenders of default hetero canon~ ensues, but I was sort of tickled to see it come up at all.

If this was one of my fellow shippers: consider this post my salute to you, sir or madam!

Also, given my absolute rock-bottom expectations for dudebro-infested internet comment sections, I was sort of pleasantly surprised that one of the posters who said a gay Sulu or Chekov would be a violation of canon was like "but how about Pike? He could be gay, that's cool."

Comments

( 12 comments — Leave a comment )
viivi
Mar. 27th, 2011 10:42 am (UTC)
lol holy crap, thank you for sharing that.

It's interesting to see them trying to give the hetero-canon argument for either of them. There's absolutely nothing canon to say that they're straight. The closest that comes to that is Demora and even her character development has close ties with Chekov :?
mercaque
Mar. 27th, 2011 12:44 pm (UTC)
IKR? There are gay/bi men with children now but apparently that's completely impossible by the 23rd century? PROGRESS

I was just so tickled to see Chulu come up outside of the usual contexts where I expect it.
fairhearing
Mar. 27th, 2011 05:35 pm (UTC)
Seriously. I would like them to inform my uncle that he does not exist, and that my cousins have a much different story of parentage.

To be fair, though, Trekmovie is made up of the neckbeardiest of comic-book-guy types. Open-mindedness, especially when it comes to anything that conflicts with their treasured unchangeable canon characterization (or that's... y'know... gay :[) is not their forte.

I still think Su/C could win over the masses if it were (1) really subtle and in the background :\, and (2) really, really cute (lookin' at you, Yelchin), but at this point I think it really has about .001% chance. I think the chance of us seeing a canon gay character in the next movie is about the same. :[
mercaque
Mar. 27th, 2011 08:30 pm (UTC)
Yeah, this. Unfortunately, pragmatically, I don't expect to see gay representation in the main cast. Hardened by years of Trek's fail in this department, I tend to expect TPTB to cater to the "neckbeardiest" common denominator (ha). Oh how I would love to be wrong.

Frankly, although I agree 100% with your criticism of Pike-as-the-gay-character below, I was shocked to see the neckbeard crowd even willing to go that far. Although if TPTB called their bluff and actually did it, I'm sure we'd be able to hear the fanboy rage for miles around. :/
fairhearing
Mar. 27th, 2011 09:48 pm (UTC)
Although if TPTB called their bluff and actually did it, I'm sure we'd be able to hear the fanboy rage for miles around. :/

Yeah, they'd shriek about it all being part of the ~trendy liberal agenda~ and it being ~shoved in their face~ and whatnot (which totally wasn't the case with the black people and women that Roddenberry "shoved in the face" of his 60's audience!). But, again, remember that these are the butthurtiest of the fans, the contingent who most frequently complain about the whole AU-non-Shatnerian-aspect of Reboot to begin with, and they were soundly ignored.

So that hope is there. It all depends on how much JJ and the other filmmakers are willing to risk making the movies in the radical, societally progressive mold of TOS. Judging from how much it's Paramount's cash cow right now, I'd say the producers are willing to risk approximately zero.

Maybe we'll get hints? :[ Or at least ambiguity. I can't see Orci and Kurtzman giving side-character-Sulu a hot alien chick to bang just to keep things safely heteronormative -- it seems like such a slap in the face to Takei.
mercaque
Mar. 28th, 2011 12:38 am (UTC)
OH MAN you just reminded me of the TrekMovie thread (I think it was that site) that nearly made my head blow up, where a bunch of commenters were bitching when John Cho did that G.A.Y.S. video about Don't Ask, Don't Tell. "I hate it when actors get political! Just act!" FROM STAR TREK FANS. Insert the FUUUUUUUUU pic here.
chocolate_frapp
Mar. 27th, 2011 03:42 pm (UTC)
I'm too tired. I read that as "surprise!CTHULU".
mercaque
Mar. 27th, 2011 08:31 pm (UTC)
LOL!
fairhearing
Mar. 27th, 2011 05:18 pm (UTC)
Oh, trekmovie.com. The fanboy cesspool. I have seen the idea of Chulu pop up there from time to time, and it's been generally more well-received than Spock/Uhura, which many of the fanboys (and K/S fangirls) are still bitter about. But that dude's logic is pretty characteristic of the arguments against it.

"Don't make it Sulu or Chekov, make it Pike, because canon establishes Sulu and Chekov as straight!"

when Vina the dancing Orion slave girl never gave Pike Prime a chubby or anything, amirite? That was pretty much the entire plot of his short stint in canon.

What he really means is:

"Don't make it Sulu or Chekov, make it Pike! Don't gay up characters that I actually care about!" (Also I love how he's like "MAKE IT PIKE AND GET THE ISSUE OFF THE TABLE," so we'll have filled our gay quota for the rest of eternity and we'll never have to address the issue ever, ever again.)

Anyway, I have found that, in the case of Sulu at least, when it comes to straight male fanboys... they basically have the kneejerk visceral reaction of "NUUUU DON'T GAY UP AWESOME MR. SULU. ;_____;" Even the liberal ones. And unfortunately, Orci and Kurtzman are big Sulu fanboys. Even my own hyper-liberal partner-in-fannish-crime, my brother, was against the idea until he figured out I had ummmm a vested interest -_- and now he's much more open to the possibility. But he wouldn't be, otherwise. :/

Edited at 2011-03-27 05:20 pm (UTC)
mercaque
Mar. 27th, 2011 08:23 pm (UTC)
I know... I actually try not to read TrekMovie.com comments because it usually ends with my blood pressure going up, but I still get sucked in every now and then. In this case I was Googling John Cho and this Akira bullshit The person who brought Chulu up in the comments was so cheerful and pleasant about it that I was honestly kind of loling (with approval) in this case.

"Don't make it Sulu or Chekov, make it Pike! Don't gay up characters that I actually care about!" (Also I love how he's like "MAKE IT PIKE AND GET THE ISSUE OFF THE TABLE," so we'll have filled our gay quota for the rest of eternity and we'll never have to address the issue ever, ever again.)

Yessssss. That angle of it really annoyed me in regards to Pike - it just wouldn't mean the same as a core cast member being gay. For me, considering that I generally expect the cesspool-of-fanboys reaction to be 100% homophobic, for it to be... like, remotely endorsing of a gay character kind of surprised me. But IA with you that it's still really problematic.

And TBH on a general note, as much as I like Pike/Bruce Greenwood, I personally can't fully get on board with prioritizing another white man as someone who MUST GET TIME in the next movie over Uhura or Sulu or Janice Rand or Charlene Masters or... in fact, maybe what really grates is that if you suggest Sulu or Chekov (or Uhura) get more than token screentime, you hear "NO SHUT UP Kirk/Spock/McCoy were always the central characters, and everyone else is just supporting, so SUCK IT." But suddenly Chekov and Sulu are ~too critical to the show~ to be gay. Come on, fanboys! Pick one!

in the case of Sulu at least, when it comes to straight male fanboys... they basically have the kneejerk visceral reaction of "NUUUU DON'T GAY UP AWESOME MR. SULU. ;_____;"

I have to be honest, I'm a little torn, because I feel like I see and hear a lot of "herp derp, George Takei came out, so Sulu is gay gay gay, AND THAT WILL NEVER STOP BEING FUNNY," including from some dudes who present as ostensibly enlightened. So while I strongly support having LGBT representation in the main cast (regardless of my own shipping preferences), I'm also kind of :/ about the fact that a lot of fanboys would probably treat gay!Sulu as a source of homophobic hilarity. On the other hand, it's not like homophobic hilarity would magically go away if it didn't happen, so is that really a good reason not to do something awesome and groundbreaking? No. I'm sorry if I'm kind of rambling and unsatisfactory about this.
fairhearing
Mar. 27th, 2011 09:42 pm (UTC)
I'm also kind of :/ about the fact that a lot of fanboys would probably treat gay!Sulu as a source of homophobic hilarity. On the other hand, it's not like homophobic hilarity would magically go away if it didn't happen

This is EXACTLY my thinking. Like, I used to be like "well but if it were Sulu the jokes would NEVER FUCKING STOP," but then I realized the jokes would (1) not only stop no matter who they theoretically chose, (2) the jokes about Sulu/Takei would never stop no matter who they theoretically chose. Like, the jokes are gonna be there no matter what, so why not take advantage of the stupidity to honor a gay icon and have a gay Star Trek icon at the same time? Cho could ttly handle it, and judging from his advocacy re: gay rights, would probably be extremely proud to do it.

Sadly for my OTP, I think having a romance between TWO of the main seven would be too much to ask, but I think I've tentatively concluded that Takei's coming-out-of-the-closet makes a gay Sulu more likely in our fantasy world here, not less.

But. None of it is very likely at all, I fear. :(

SO LAEM
mercaque
Mar. 28th, 2011 01:05 am (UTC)
Well I hate to be boring, but IA with your thought processes (for better and worse). I would sort-of hope without expectation for one gay core character, but I would be absolutely dumbfounded if they actually went ahead and made a couple, any couple. And yes, perhaps Takei's coming out has forced the issue a little more than it would have been otherwise.

I really just need the hopefully non-sucky sequel to get here soon!
( 12 comments — Leave a comment )